Topologie-Stichtag / Topology reference date [message #1435] |
Wed, 02 November 2016 11:34 |
Mićo Mićić
Messages: 16 Registered: November 2016
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Junior Member |
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Hallo zusammen
Dies ist mein erster Post im railML Forum. Herr Kolmorgen hat mich darüber informiert, dass es üblich ist sich dabei erst kurz vorzustellen. Mein Name ist Mico Micic und ich bin Solution/Software Architect bei der SBB-IT. Ich arbeite für die Trassenplanungssoftware "NeTS". NeTS ist die nationale Software der Schweiz für die Trassenbestellung sowie Trassenplanung welche von der SBB und BLS genutzt wird.
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Nun meine Frage:
Im Rahmen des Projekts „PAIP" wird untersucht, ob wir railML 2.3 für den Austausch von Trassendaten für interne Applikationen nutzen können. Wir sind dabei auf folgendes Problem gestossen:
In der aktuellen Planungssoftware der SBB kann eine Trasse mehrere sogenannte Topologie-Stichtage haben. Damit wird bestimmt, ab welchem Tag im Jahr die Trasse welchen Topologie-Stand referenziert. Beispiel: Vom 10. Januar bis 1. August gilt eine andere Topologie als ab 1. August bis Ende des Jahres.
|------------------|-------------------------------|----------------------------|
Start Fahrplanp. Stichtag 10. Jan -------------->Stichtag 1. Aug ------------->Ende FP
Im RailML 2.3 haben wir aktuell keine Möglichkeit gefunden, die beschriebenen Stichtage abzulegen. Gibt es dazu Ideen? Hat das Problem jemand schon gelöst? Gibt es Ideen, wie man diese Information als Extension einfügen könnte?
Vielen Dank
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Dear all,
This is my first post in the RailML forum. Mr. Kolmorgen informed me that it is usual to introduce himself. My name is Mico Micic and I am solution/software architect at SBB-IT. I work for the train planning software "NeTS". NeTS is the Switzerland's national software for the train reservation / ordering and train planning used by SBB and BLS.
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Now my question:
As part of the project "PAIP" we are investigating whether we can use railML 2.3 for the timetable data exchange between internal applications. During the first analysis we have encountered the following problem:
In the SBB internal train planning software, each train can have multiple so-called "topology reference dates". These reference dates defines from which day of the year which topology state / revision is referenced. Example: From 10 January to 1 August, a different topology applies than from 1 August to the end of the year.
|---------------------|------------------------------|-------------------------------|
Start Timetable per. Ref. Date 10. Jan ------------>Ref. Date 1. Aug -------------->End Timetable per.
We could not find a way to describe these reference days in RailML 2.3. Are there any ideas? Has someone already implemented a solution for this problem? Are there any ideas about how to add this information as extension?
Thanks a lot!
Mico
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Mico Micic
Solution Architect
SBB AG
Informatik
Eigerstrasse 13, 3000 Bern 65
www.sbb.ch
[Updated on: Thu, 03 November 2016 14:10] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Re: Topologie-Stichtag / Topology reference date [message #1439 is a reply to message #1435] |
Tue, 08 November 2016 05:57 |
christian.rahmig
Messages: 465 Registered: January 2016
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Senior Member |
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Hallo Mico,
Am 03.11.2016 um 14:11 schrieb Mico Micic:
> Dies ist mein erster Post im railML Forum. [...]
Willkommen im Forum!
> Im RailML 2.3 haben wir aktuell keine Möglichkeit gefunden,
> die beschriebenen Stichtage abzulegen. Gibt es dazu Ideen?
> Hat das Problem jemand schon gelöst? Gibt es Ideen, wie man
> diese Information als Extension einfügen könnte?
Als railML-Infrastruktur-Schemenkoordinator möchte ich gern meinen Teil
zur Antwort beisteuern: In der Tat gibt es im aktuellen railML 2.3 keine
Möglichkeit, einen zeitlichen Verlauf der Streckentopologie abzubilden.
Das Problem ist komplex und wird unter dem Titel "Time Dimension"
momentan ausführlich für railML Version 3 und RailTopoModel untersucht.
Neben der Abbildung von Gültigkeiten ("Welche Topologie ist an einem
bestimmten Tag verfügbar") sollen auch Planungsvarianten und die anderen
Phasen aus dem Infrastruktur-Lebenszyklus adressiert werden. Wenn Sie
vor dem Erscheinen von railML v3 bereits an einer Lösung Ihrer Aufgabe
interessiert sind, empfehle ich Ihnen den Kontakt mit der RailTopoModel
Expert Group, z.B. über die Foren-Newsgruppe "RailTopoModel". Sicherlich
lassen sich die Ideen im Rahmen einer Schema-Extension auch im aktuellen
Modell einpflegen.
> In the SBB internal train planning software, each train can
> have multiple so-called "topology reference dates". These
> reference dates defines from which day of the year which
> topology state / revision is referenced. Example: From 10
> January to 1 August, a different topology applies than from
> 1 August to the end of the year.
> [...]
> We could not find a way to describe these reference days in
> RailML 2.3. Are there any ideas? Has someone already
> implemented a solution for this problem? Are there any ideas
> about how to add this information as extension?
Indeed, current railML v2.3 does not provide a solution for different
time validities of topology. This task is very complex and currently it
is being analyzed by the RailTopoModel Expert Group in preparation of
the upcoming railML version 3. Except the possibility to model
validities ("Which topology is valid on a given day"), the new approach
shall be able to cope with variants of planned topology and the other
phases of the infrastructure lifecycle. If you are interested in a
solution before the official release of railML v3, please contact the
RailTopoModel Expert Group, e.g. via the forum's newsgroup
"RailTopoModel". I am sure that these ideas may be implemented in form
of a schema extension even in the current railML model.
Best regards
--
Christian Rahmig
railML.infrastructure coordinator
Christian Rahmig – Infrastructure scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railML.org
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Re: Topologie-Stichtag / Topology reference date [message #1444 is a reply to message #1439] |
Tue, 08 November 2016 17:23 |
Philip Wobst
Messages: 47 Registered: November 2013 Location: Hanover, Germany
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Member |
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Hello Mico,
welcome from my side as well - I will limit my answer to the Englisch version and I hope this is fine for you. As Christian has outlined there is no time dimension for the infrastructure in railML 2.3.
Which infrastructure references in the timetable data export is affected by the topology reference date (e.g. ocpRef, trackRef, sectionTT, platformEdgeRef, stopPostRef)?
Best regards,
Philip
--
Philip Wobst
railML.org Timetable coordinator
Phone: +49-511-33699 498
Dresden; Germany www.railml.org
[Updated on: Wed, 09 November 2016 14:18] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Re: Topologie-Stichtag / Topology reference date [message #1448 is a reply to message #1435] |
Tue, 22 November 2016 08:18 |
Mićo Mićić
Messages: 16 Registered: November 2016
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Junior Member |
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Hello everyone,
sorry for my late answer.
In the SBB data model, the topology reference dates are defined directly on the train itself because they are globally valid. These mean that multiple topology dates have been used for all referenced infrastructure elements at the moment the train was planned.
Example: At the beginning of 2016, a new train is planned for the whole operation period in 2016 (every day in the year). At this time, the topology reference date is 01.01.2016. It is already known, however, that the topology will change on 01.06.2016. Thus, another topology reference date is set for the 01.06.2016. In this case, the topology from 01.01.2016 is used for e.g. train runtime calculation for the first half-year.
In RailML, that would mean that we have to add a list of dates to the <train> element. Something like that:
<!-- Trasse: T16321-001 -->
<train id="train-trasse-16321-001"
code="T16321-001"
type="operational"
trainNumber="16321"
additionalTrainNumber="1"
cancellation="false"
processStatus="actual"
description="BnMuebD">
<my:topologyReferenceDates>
<my:referenceDate>2016-01-01</my:referenceDate>
<my:referenceDate>2016-06-01</my:referenceDate>
</my:topologyReferenceDates>
...
...
</train>
Best regards,
Mico
[Updated on: Tue, 22 November 2016 08:19] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Topologie-Stichtag / Topology reference date [message #1525 is a reply to message #1519] |
Mon, 06 March 2017 19:49 |
Mićo Mićić
Messages: 16 Registered: November 2016
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Junior Member |
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Hi Philip
Thank you for the feedback! My understanding was also that there should be only one valid topologyReference for each register. But: In the case of the SBB, we could also write the reference date(s) in the attribute "entry". Something like that:
<topologyReference topologyRegister="UNO" entry="20170101,20170601"/>
In this case, we would no use the start and end date attributes. Other topology register may use the "entry" attribute to refer to a topology version. Example for two versions where the first one is valid from 2017-01-01 to 2017-06-01 and the second one from 2017-06-01:
<topologyReference topologyRegister="XYZ" entry="v1005" startDate="2017-01-01" endDate="2017-06-01"/>
<topologyReference topologyRegister="XYZ" entry="v1006" startDate="2017-06-01"/>
Both ways would be suitable for us.
Best regards,
Mico
[Updated on: Mon, 06 March 2017 19:49] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Topologie-Stichtag / Topology reference date [message #1538 is a reply to message #1531] |
Mon, 03 April 2017 09:34 |
Mićo Mićić
Messages: 16 Registered: November 2016
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Junior Member |
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Hi everyone,
as discussed at the last timetable developer meeting the solution for the topology reference will be something like the OCP designator but with a new register for the topology databases. Here is the register entry for the SBB "UNO" topology database:
<register code="UNO">
<name xml:lang="de-CH">Zentrale Topologiedatenbank für Bahnsysteme</name>
<name xml:lang="fr-CH">Base de données centrale pour la topologie des systèmes ferroviaires</name>
<name xml:lang="it-CH">Banca dati topologica per sistemi ferroviari</name>
<name xml:lang="en">Central topology database for railway systems</name>
<organization xml:lang="de-CH">Schweizerische Bundesbahnen im Auftrag des Bundesamtes für Verkehr</organization>
<organization xml:lang="fr-CH">Chemins de fer fédéraux suisses par ordre Office fédéral des transports</organization>
<organization xml:lang="it-CH">Ferrovie Federali Svizzere su incarico Ufficio federale dei trasporti</organization>
<organization xml:lang="en">Swiss Federal Railways on behalf of Federal Office of Transport</organization>
</register>
Best regards,
Mićo
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